Levin, J.
The fundamental question presented by this appeal is whether a trial judge may properly reduce or enlarge a sentence based on the amount of the court’s time consumed before a defendant’s conviction.
The defendant Earegood pleaded not guilty to the charge originally lodged against him at the arraignment on the information, August 2, 1965. At the criminal calendar call October 12, 1965, the defendant demanded a jury trial. Shortly before he was given an opportunity to do so the trial judge made the following statement:
“I think it is about time to make my usual announcement, gentlemen. The purpose of this call is to get pleas. If you are going to plead or waive a trial by jury now is the time to do it, so we can schedule. The court has a long memory, and all this goes on record, and when it comes time for sen-[259]*259fence, if yon plead or waive a jury at the last minute, it is a factor I take into consideration in sentencing. I am sure you all know the risk.”
Thereafter, on November 16, 1965, the information was amended to add the count of assault with intent to do great bodily harm less than the crime of murder,1 and the defendant pleaded guilty to that charge. The requirements of GCB. 1963, 785.3 (2) were complied with before acceptance of his guilty plea.2 The defendant was sentenced on December 17, 1965.
[260]*260As we read Ms remarks of October 12, 1965, the trial judge told all in the courtroom, including the defendant, that those who dilly-dallied in offering a guilty plea might expect to be dealt with more severely should they later decide to offer one. "We take the judge at his word and assume he sentenced as he promised he would, and, thus, that Earegood’s sentence was increased because he dawdled before pleading. Because a sentence may not be enlarged or reduced depending on the alacrity with which the defendant pleads guilty, the sentence must be set aside.
But Earegood also contends the trial judge’s remarks influenced him to plead guilty. This contention presents several subsidiary questions:
— Did the trial judge’s remarks in fact influence the defendant to plead guilty?
— Is the plea insulated from attack because it followed negotiations and an agreement that the de[261]*261fendant would offer a plea of guilty to an added lesser offense?
— May a trial judge validly increase or reduce a sentence based on whether the defendant was convicted following a trial or a plea of guilty?
I.
The courts hold with substantial unanimity that a trial judge may not properly encourage a defendant to plead guilty3 or impose a penalty in the form [262]*262of an increased sentence4 upon one convicted after a trial.
Most judges would probably agree it is improper for a trial judge to influence a defendant’s decision [263]*263whether to plead guilty and, thus, on this point at least, practice in general conforms to the judicial statements.
[264]*264“The unequal positions of the judge and the accused, one with the power to commit to prison and the other deeply concerned to avoid prison, at once raise a question of fundamental fairness. When a judge becomes a participant in plea bargaining he brings to bear the full force and majesty of his office. His awesome power to impose a substantially longer or even maximum sentence in excess of that proposed is present whether referred to or not. A defendant needs no reminder that if he rejects the proposal, stands upon his right to trial and is convicted, he faces a significantly longer sentence. One facing a prison term, whether of longer or shorter duration, is easily influenced to accept what appears the more preferable choice.” United States, ex rel. Elksnis, v. Gilligan (SD NY, 1966), 256 F Supp 244, 254.
However, despite appellate court statements to the contrary (see footnote 4), many trial judges think it entirely proper to count against the defendant the fact that he has put the State to the expense of a trial, and sentence one convicted following a trial more heavily than if he had pled guilty.5
[265]*265This sentencing practice finds support in tlxe American Bar Association’s recently adopted Standards Eelating to Pleas of Guilty (standard 1.8; quoted in full in footnote 8).6 The standards state it is proper for a trial judge to grant sentence concessions to those who plead guilty as long as the judge himself does not participate in the bargaining (standards 3.3[a] and 1.8[a], discussed in part II, infra).
The commentary accompanying the standards takes no notice of either the relatively few supportive or the greater number of contrary judicial state[266]*266ments (see footnote 4), but rather relies on its own exegesis.
In those jurisdictions where plea bargaining focuses on the granting of sentence concessions, the present high proportion of guilty pleas is no doubt in part explained by the practice of granting such concessions or at least leading defendants to believe they will be granted. In proposing as a national standard the practices followed in those jurisdictions, practices contrary to most appellate court statements on the matter, ABA guilty pleas standard 1.8 (discussed in part III, infra) offers a truly minimum standard.7 That standard does not — and we say this with sincere respect for the judgment of those who participated in the promulgation of the standards — represent the conscience of the law. It is inconsistent with fundamental principles concerning the judge’s role, with the maintenance of any standards at all, and lends respectability to practices which no court should allow.
The high regard we all have for the ABA may well lead to uncritical adoption of standards issued under its authority with the result that the minimum standard will become the common standard. This [267]*267we feel would be most unfortunate, and, accordingly, we address ourselves to wbat we believe to be a serious threat to well-established principles concerning the use of judicial power.
II.
ABA Guilty Plea standard 3.3(a) states:
“The trial judge should not participate in plea discussions”
while standard 1.8(a) states:
“It is proper for the court to grant charge and sentence concessions to defendants who enter a plea of guilty”.
There is, of course, a difference in degree between overt and covert participation, the former clearly being more inconsistent with the judge’s role than the latter. But the fact that a particular judge grants sentence concessions to guilty pleaders is not the kind of fact likely to be kept secret. On the contrary, lawyers who properly represent their clients make it their business to learn the sentencing policies of the various judges before whom they appear. Thus, in a very real sense, the judge who adopts a practice of going lighter on guilty pleaders cannot avoid participation in the plea bargaining process. His practices may become so well known that it is unnecessary for him to inject himself in the process overtly, but this hardly means he does not participate.
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Levin, J.
The fundamental question presented by this appeal is whether a trial judge may properly reduce or enlarge a sentence based on the amount of the court’s time consumed before a defendant’s conviction.
The defendant Earegood pleaded not guilty to the charge originally lodged against him at the arraignment on the information, August 2, 1965. At the criminal calendar call October 12, 1965, the defendant demanded a jury trial. Shortly before he was given an opportunity to do so the trial judge made the following statement:
“I think it is about time to make my usual announcement, gentlemen. The purpose of this call is to get pleas. If you are going to plead or waive a trial by jury now is the time to do it, so we can schedule. The court has a long memory, and all this goes on record, and when it comes time for sen-[259]*259fence, if yon plead or waive a jury at the last minute, it is a factor I take into consideration in sentencing. I am sure you all know the risk.”
Thereafter, on November 16, 1965, the information was amended to add the count of assault with intent to do great bodily harm less than the crime of murder,1 and the defendant pleaded guilty to that charge. The requirements of GCB. 1963, 785.3 (2) were complied with before acceptance of his guilty plea.2 The defendant was sentenced on December 17, 1965.
[260]*260As we read Ms remarks of October 12, 1965, the trial judge told all in the courtroom, including the defendant, that those who dilly-dallied in offering a guilty plea might expect to be dealt with more severely should they later decide to offer one. "We take the judge at his word and assume he sentenced as he promised he would, and, thus, that Earegood’s sentence was increased because he dawdled before pleading. Because a sentence may not be enlarged or reduced depending on the alacrity with which the defendant pleads guilty, the sentence must be set aside.
But Earegood also contends the trial judge’s remarks influenced him to plead guilty. This contention presents several subsidiary questions:
— Did the trial judge’s remarks in fact influence the defendant to plead guilty?
— Is the plea insulated from attack because it followed negotiations and an agreement that the de[261]*261fendant would offer a plea of guilty to an added lesser offense?
— May a trial judge validly increase or reduce a sentence based on whether the defendant was convicted following a trial or a plea of guilty?
I.
The courts hold with substantial unanimity that a trial judge may not properly encourage a defendant to plead guilty3 or impose a penalty in the form [262]*262of an increased sentence4 upon one convicted after a trial.
Most judges would probably agree it is improper for a trial judge to influence a defendant’s decision [263]*263whether to plead guilty and, thus, on this point at least, practice in general conforms to the judicial statements.
[264]*264“The unequal positions of the judge and the accused, one with the power to commit to prison and the other deeply concerned to avoid prison, at once raise a question of fundamental fairness. When a judge becomes a participant in plea bargaining he brings to bear the full force and majesty of his office. His awesome power to impose a substantially longer or even maximum sentence in excess of that proposed is present whether referred to or not. A defendant needs no reminder that if he rejects the proposal, stands upon his right to trial and is convicted, he faces a significantly longer sentence. One facing a prison term, whether of longer or shorter duration, is easily influenced to accept what appears the more preferable choice.” United States, ex rel. Elksnis, v. Gilligan (SD NY, 1966), 256 F Supp 244, 254.
However, despite appellate court statements to the contrary (see footnote 4), many trial judges think it entirely proper to count against the defendant the fact that he has put the State to the expense of a trial, and sentence one convicted following a trial more heavily than if he had pled guilty.5
[265]*265This sentencing practice finds support in tlxe American Bar Association’s recently adopted Standards Eelating to Pleas of Guilty (standard 1.8; quoted in full in footnote 8).6 The standards state it is proper for a trial judge to grant sentence concessions to those who plead guilty as long as the judge himself does not participate in the bargaining (standards 3.3[a] and 1.8[a], discussed in part II, infra).
The commentary accompanying the standards takes no notice of either the relatively few supportive or the greater number of contrary judicial state[266]*266ments (see footnote 4), but rather relies on its own exegesis.
In those jurisdictions where plea bargaining focuses on the granting of sentence concessions, the present high proportion of guilty pleas is no doubt in part explained by the practice of granting such concessions or at least leading defendants to believe they will be granted. In proposing as a national standard the practices followed in those jurisdictions, practices contrary to most appellate court statements on the matter, ABA guilty pleas standard 1.8 (discussed in part III, infra) offers a truly minimum standard.7 That standard does not — and we say this with sincere respect for the judgment of those who participated in the promulgation of the standards — represent the conscience of the law. It is inconsistent with fundamental principles concerning the judge’s role, with the maintenance of any standards at all, and lends respectability to practices which no court should allow.
The high regard we all have for the ABA may well lead to uncritical adoption of standards issued under its authority with the result that the minimum standard will become the common standard. This [267]*267we feel would be most unfortunate, and, accordingly, we address ourselves to wbat we believe to be a serious threat to well-established principles concerning the use of judicial power.
II.
ABA Guilty Plea standard 3.3(a) states:
“The trial judge should not participate in plea discussions”
while standard 1.8(a) states:
“It is proper for the court to grant charge and sentence concessions to defendants who enter a plea of guilty”.
There is, of course, a difference in degree between overt and covert participation, the former clearly being more inconsistent with the judge’s role than the latter. But the fact that a particular judge grants sentence concessions to guilty pleaders is not the kind of fact likely to be kept secret. On the contrary, lawyers who properly represent their clients make it their business to learn the sentencing policies of the various judges before whom they appear. Thus, in a very real sense, the judge who adopts a practice of going lighter on guilty pleaders cannot avoid participation in the plea bargaining process. His practices may become so well known that it is unnecessary for him to inject himself in the process overtly, but this hardly means he does not participate. The judge’s sentencing practices are a fact, and they are no less a fact because there is no need to rearticulate that fact upon each arraignment.
Standard 3.3 (b) states that where a “tentative plea agreement has been reached which contemplates entry of a plea of guilty * # # in the expectation * * * that sentence concessions will be [268]*268granted, upon request of the parties the trial judge may permit the disclosure to him of the tentative agreement”, and he may indicate “whether he will concur in the proposed disposition if the information in the presentence report is consistent with the representations made to him.” It is further provided (standard 3.3 [c]) that, notwithstanding the prior plea agreement, the trial judge “should reach an independent decision.” And if the trial judge has concurred in the plea agreement (standard 3.3[b]) “but later decides that the final disposition should not include the * * # sentence concessions contemplated by the plea agreement, he shall so advise the defendant and then call upon the defendant to either affirm or withdraw his plea of guilty”.
"We are convinced of the impossibility of the judge’s avoiding active participation in plea bargaining under the circumstances described by the standard. The length of sentence is the decision of the judge. Prosecutor-defense counsel bargaining over sentence concessions would be an exercise in futility unless the bargainers thought the result of their negotiations would influence the judge. Thus, without at least the judge’s tacit approval (i.e., his “participation”), such bargaining would not take place. If the prosecutor is willing to recommend, for example, 5 years, and the defendant is seeking 2-1/2 years, and they settle on 3-1/2 years, they must of necessity in such bargaining consider the judge’s attitude.
If the judge permits disclosure to him of the prosecutor-defendant agreement upon sentence (as the quoted ABA standard contemplates), how can he avoid stating the reason for any disagreement with the recommended disposition and, perhaps, indicating what sentence he would agree to consider, at least in those jurisdictions where the administration of [269]*269criminal justice has come to depend on a steady flow of guilty pleas? Indeed, what purpose would be served by disclosing the arrangement to the judge if not determination of whether the bargainers áre on the beam? If a meeting of the minds or finalization of a previously negotiated agreement follows the judge’s statement of his reaction to the parties’ original proposal, surely the judge has participated in achieving that result and in the bargaining itself.
If upon full information the judge decides the proposed sentence is too lenient and (as the standards suggest) offers the defendant an opportunity to withdraw his guilty plea, would not the average defendant carefully consider whether rejection of the judge’s evaluation might lead to a higher sentence should he be convicted following a trial, regardless of whether the particular judge would visit such punishment upon the defendant? The judge’s decision to reject the original sentence agreement is, of necessity, based on the judge’s evaluation of both the offender and the charged offense. After the kind of negotiating' and bargaining which preceded confrontation with the judge, is it not reasonable to expect many, if not most, offenders would conclude both fair trial and fair sentencing have been forfeited?
“Time and again this court has said that justice must not only be done but must manifestly be seen to be done.” Rex v. Justices of Bodmin (1947), KB 321, 325.
III.
ABA guilty plea standard 1.8 needs to be examined in detail.8
[270]*270Considerations (i) and (vi) of standard 1.8 are present in every case where the defendant pleads guilty. Every guilty pleader makes his own punishment more certain and, by avoiding trial, expedites disposition of other cases. The net effect of considerations (i) and (vi) is to permit the trial judge to grant a sentence concession in every case where the defendant pleads guilty and, thus, considerations (i) and (vi) effectively cancel everything else in subparagraph (a) of standard 1.8. It would have been clearer simply to have said that sentence concessions may be granted to all guilty pleaders.
Consideration (ii), allowing sentence concessions to guilty pleaders on the ground “defendant has acknowledged his guilt and shown a willingness to assume responsibility for his conduct”,9 also applies in [271]*271every case, if it applies in any case. If the defendant acknowledges his guilt in the expectation of a sentence concession, he is as likely to he trying to put himself in line for a sentence concession as to be truly repentant. Those who think “confession is good for the soul”, that acknowledgment of guilt and repentance is an important step on the road to rehabilitation, should be in the forefront of opposition to plea bargaining in any form, because only elimination of all concessions will remove the temptations which contaminate the moral surge of those truly repentant. Only then could we distinguish the truly repentant from those merely bargaining in the marketplace. Repentance and purchase are not coextensive concepts. The plea bargaining apologists themselves tell us that without the element of purchase there would be far fewer guilty pleas. A palpable inconsistency exists between the pragmatic basis of plea bargaining, the need to obtain guilty pleas, and the beatification of the guilty pleader.
And while we are focusing on remorse, it appears that the bargaining system may create as much recriminatory remorse as penitent remorse. If a defendant pleads guilty in the expectation of a sentence lighter than the one he in fact receives, he may well [272]*272be left with feelings of both regret and having been cheated, feelings which, whether completely justified or not, are bound to occur in particular cases as long- as defendants are encouraged to believe it is to their advantage to plead guilty. Plea bargaining may then produce at least as much negative as positive remorse and may retard as well as promote rehabilitation.
The ABA standard also asserts (consideration [iii]) that concessions may be granted if they “will make possible alternative correctional measures which are better adapted to achieving rehabilitative, protective, deterrent or other purposes of correctional treatment, or will prevent undue harm to the defendant from the form of conviction.” It is unclear whether that consideration is intended to have application to sentence concessions or whether it relates only to charge reduction concessions. In any event, such “better adapted” corrective measures could be achieved without exacting the plea in exchange for the concession — the charge or sentence could be reduced without regard to whether the defendant pleads guilty. It is not proper for a judge to deny correctional measures “better adapted to achieving rehabilitation, et cetera” merely because one has exercised his right to stand trial. Are those ‘'misguided souls who exercise constitutional rights less in need of such alternative correctional measures than those who waive them? On the contrary, it would seem those who perversely insist upon exercising constitutional rights have at least as great a need of “better adapted” correctional measures as the truly repentant who waive them.
Standard 1.8(b) concludes:10
[273]*273“The court should not impose upon a defendant any sentence in excess of that which would he justified by any of the rehabilitative, protective, deterrent or other purposes of the criminal law because the defendant has chosen to require the prosecution to prove his guilt at trial rather than to enter a plea of guilty.”
It seems then that the court may impose a lesser sentence than would be justified by any of those considerations upon a defendant who pleads guilty. Defenders of plea bargaining cannot have it both ways. Guilty pleaders cannot receive lighter sentences unless those convicted upon trial receive heavier sentences — disparity there must be. Any such disparity is nothing less than a judicially imposed penalty11 for the exercise of constitutional rights, however it is dressed and garnished, or however exalted and respected may be the imprimatur of the authority that defends it.
IY.
The sentencing power of the trial judge is enormous. If within the statutory range, the sentence generally is regarded as unreviewable on appeal, [274]*274even if the defendant asserts and proves that the trial judge abused the discretion confided to him.12 A trial judge should not be permitted to use that awesome power to accomplish a waiver of fundamental guaranteed rights. One exercising a guar[275]*275anteed right should not fear he may have to pay a price for doing so.13 He should not have to fear that if he demands a trial and is convicted his sentence will be higher than if he had waived his constitutional rights. A constitutional right may not be the subject of barter. Neither, in our view, should the exercise of judicial discretion.
“To no one will we sell, to no one deny or delay right or justice.” Magna Carta, Art 40.14
Whatever one may think of plea bargaining for charge reductions between prosecutor and defendant,15 we have not, in tailoring justice to the realities of the docket and prosecutorial and judicial manpower,16 authorized the trial judge himself to exert any pressure on the defendant to plead guilty. We [276]*276hope we never shall, whatever may he the backlog of untried cases.17
The remedy for the backlog is not more pressure on prosecutors and defendants to strike deals, but increased public awareness of the need to provide [277]*277adequate funds so there are enough assistant prosecutors and judges to try those whom the prosecutor believes guilty for the offenses he charges have been committed. The trenchant comments of a unanimous Court in R. R. Improvement Association v. Thomas (1965), 374 Mich 175, 187, are in point:
“Our metropolitan circuits being burdened as they are, it is better to let the work of the circuit get farther and farther behind than to crank a judicial meatgrinder the unjust output of Avhich is simply a great number of ‘cases disposed of.’ When such a choice — between contemplative and prompt justice on the one hand and assembly line justice on the other — must be made, it [the Court] is due for bitter criticism either way. But cases tried right, and then thoughtfully decided, amount of a certainty to better judicial service than that which is manifested in this and too many like appendices coming here.”
As things stand now, the experienced criminal assumes he can make a deal for a lesser charge than the one alleged in the prosecutor’s information. More likely than not, he can. Such a state of affairs will hardly inculcate respect for law and order. Participation by trial judges in the negotiating process would, no doubt, speed it up, but the public’s and profession’s esteem for the judiciary is bound to be diminished.
We should not take the next step backward and permit judges to enter the bargaining process. That is what appears on the record before us, and a new trial is ordered.
Y.
The defendant could reasonably understand the trial judge was saying he was a busy man with a long memory and those who run the gauntlet unsuccessfully will be dealt with more severely than those [278]*278who plead guilty. Might not a defendant or his counsel reasonably conclude that if a penalty will be imposed on those who vex the court by delay in pleading guilty, those who stand trial and are convicted may expect at least similar and perhaps more severe treatment? This seems an entirely reasonable construction. Had we been in the courtroom, this is the message that would have come through to us. Surely the defendant should not be faulted for failing to interpret the judge’s remarks to mean that while those who delayed in pleading guilty, but ultimately did so, would be dealt with more harshly than those who pleaded guilty at the time of the criminal calendar call, those convicted by a jury after a possibly lengthy trial would be sentenced as if they had pled guilty at the criminal calendar call.
There is, of course, no way of knowing what influenced the defendant here to plead guilty.18 Most defendants who plead guilty are guilty and have been offered an opportunity to plead to an offense with a lower maximum sentence than the offense originally charged and in fact committed. Perhaps so in this case.19
Where a defendant claims a promise or threat was made and this is denied, there must be a testimonial hearing to determine the truth of the claim. In this case the promise-threat appears on the ree[279]*279ord. A hearing on whether the defendant was “influenced” by the promise-threat would be unproductive. The defendant cannot constitutionally be required to submit to questioning and his attorney’s lips are sealed. Any admissions made during the bargaining process with the prosecutor or during the examination by the judge at the time he accepted the plea could be explained away as having been offered to justify the prosecutor in recommending acceptance of the negotiated plea and the judge in accepting it.20 A hearing to determine if the judge’s remarks influenced the defendant to plead guilty would present a much more difficult factual question than that presented by a trial of defendant’s guilt on the original charge.
We hold that, once established, the promise-threat will ordinarily be presumed to have influenced the defendant.21 Any other approach would be impractical. We should not spend a great amount of time trying an extraneous issue when in nearly the same time we could try the real issue, the defendant’s guilt.
YI.
The view that sentence concessions should be awarded guilty pleaders is entertained, if not expressed with the candor that appears on this record, by many trial judges (see footnote 5), all of which is known to practitioners and prosecutors and soon becomes known to defendants and the public at large. That view is so widely held that many assume a judge .will go harder on a defendant who is convicted fol[280]*280lowing trial.22 Thus, there is an implicit promise-threat in every case, which will not he removed unless, and until, the judiciary convincingly make it known that trial judges will not deal more harshly with a defendant who is convicted following a trial than one who pleads guilty, and all become convinced that is true.
It could be argued that since the promise-threat is implicit in every case, we should grant relief in no case, even this one where the promise-threat appears on the record. ¥e are not willing so to admit judicial impotence to correct unsound practice. That we do not do more is a poor reason for doing less.
Our disposition of this case makes it unnecessary for us to consider defendant’s claims that he was not credited with jail time on his sentence and that the trial court failed to certify the stenographic record of proceedings as required by GrCR 1963, 785.3(3).
The conviction and plea are hereby set aside and the cause remanded for trial.
T. Gr. Kavanagh, J., concurred with Levin, J.