Per Curiam.
James Corzel Pulley was charged with one count of unlawful delivery of heroin and one count of conspiracy to deliver heroin. He pled guilty of attempted possession with intent to deliver heroin,1 and was sentenced to serve six to ten years imprisonment.
Pulley appealed, raising one issue: whether his [527]*527sentence should be vacated because he was not present at an in-chambers, off-the-record presentence conference between the sentencing judge and Pulley’s attorney. The Court of Appeals affirmed in an unpublished opinion.2 We granted leave to appeal.
I
At the outset of the in-court sentencing proceeding, the circuit judge addressed defense counsel, saying:
"Mr. Dodge, you have already discussed this matter with the court in chambers. Do you wish to respond any further to the presentence investigation report?”
It is thus apparent that the judge and defense counsel discussed the presentence report and, presumably, the sentence, in Pulley’s absence. The balance of the sentencing record shows that the prosecutor was also given the opportunity to respond to the presentence report, and that Pulley was accorded his opportunity for allocution.
Pulley asserts that his opportunity for allocution and to refute the contents of the presentence report was made ineffective by his absence from the presentence conference, and that the presentence conference is a critical stage of a criminal prosecution at which a defendant has a constitutional right to be present. The prosecutor maintains that Pulley had a full opportunity for allocu[528]*528tion and to respond to the presentence investigation report, and that his right to be present extends only to his trial, which ends with the rendition of the verdict.
II
While the power to set the range of punishment for a given offense is legislative,3 bringing that statutory range of discretion to bear upon an individual defendant in the form of a sentence has been confided to the judiciary.4 The exertion of such judicial process has traditionally required that the accused be given the opportunity to personally participate.5
" 'A leading principle that pervades the entire law of criminal procedure is that, after indictment found, nothing shall be done in the absence of the prisoner.’ ” People v Medcoff, 344 Mich 108, 114; 73 NW2d 537 (1955), quoting Lewis v United States, 146 US 370, 372; 13 S Ct 136; 36 L Ed 1011 (1892).
In 1882, this Court invalidated a statute prescribing the procedure applicable to persons convicted and imprisoned as disorderly by a justice of the peace.6 The statute required the circuit court, at the beginning of each term, to inquire into the circumstances of each case, to hear any proofs offered, and to order a prisoner released, bound out as an apprentice or servant or committed to jail at hard labor. The Court said:
[529]*529"Now surely it requires no argument at the present day, nor citation of authorities, to show that none of these things can be done by the circuit court unless the person convicted is personally present. It would be so clearly contrary to our fundamental law to permit evidence to be introduced and considered against a person convicted or accused; or to permit the sentence imposed to be increased, as this statute provides, in the absence of the person convicted, that we cannot think the Legislature contemplated such a thing. If attempted it would be clearly unconstitutional and of no force or effect.” In the Matter of Fowler, 49 Mich 234, 238; 13 NW 530 (1882).
An analysis of the character of the sentencing proceeding reveals its kinship to the process of determining guilt or innocence at trial, and the consequent need for defendant’s presence and participation. Michigan sentencing policy currently requires that
"the sentence should be tailored to the particular circumstances of the case and the offender in an effort to balance both society’s need for protection and its interest in maximizing the offender’s rehabilitative potential.” People v McFarlin, 389 Mich 557, 574; 208 NW2d 504 (1973).
To so tailor the sentence, the judge must gather complete and detailed information about the offender.7 The judge must assess the reliability of the information received,8 assure that it is reasonably up-to-date,9 determine its competency as a [530]*530sentencing consideration,10 and resolve challenges to its accuracy.11
The lack of knowledge of what went on in conference denigrates the defendant’s personal right of allocution. GCR 1963, 785.8(2). What Pulley has argued may often be true:
"To provide the defendant with a chance to speak after extensive chamber discussions is worthless. If defendant has been excluded from this crucial sentencing discussion, he not only must challenge any preconceived determination, but must do so in the dark.”
Closely related to assuring the actual fairness and reliability of the proceeding is assuring the appearance of fairness and reliability so essential to maintaining confidence in courts as instruments of justice.12 Proceedings secret to the defendant, whether or not fair in fact, are antithetic to the defendant’s perception that he is being treated fairly. As expressed in an English case in which a witness had been questioned by the court in the absence of the defendant:
"That is a matter which cannot possibly be justified. I am not suggesting for one moment that the justices had any sinister or improper motive in acting as they did. It may be that they sent for this officer in the interests of the accused; it may be that the information which the officer gave was in the interests of the accused. That [531]*531does not matter. Time and again this court has said that justice must not only be done but must manifestly be seen to be done.” Rex v Bodmin Justices ex parte McEwen, [1947] KB 321, 325; [1947] 1 All Eng Rep 109 (emphasis supplied).
One has only to imagine a defendant sitting in the courtroom while his attorney, probably appointed by the state, and the judge are discussing his fate behind closed doors to see how easily the defendant’s predictable dissatisfaction with the fairness of his sentence will become dissatisfaction with the fairness of the system.
Of comparable importance to the defendant’s perception of fair treatment is society’s perception that the process by which it deprives certain of its members of their liberty is fair, just and reliable:
"Against the practical ease of administration associated with informality must be weighed the ceremonial value of solemn formality and procedural regularity as indices of society’s commitment to the principle that liberty and life ought not to be taken away cheaply or carelessly.
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Per Curiam.
James Corzel Pulley was charged with one count of unlawful delivery of heroin and one count of conspiracy to deliver heroin. He pled guilty of attempted possession with intent to deliver heroin,1 and was sentenced to serve six to ten years imprisonment.
Pulley appealed, raising one issue: whether his [527]*527sentence should be vacated because he was not present at an in-chambers, off-the-record presentence conference between the sentencing judge and Pulley’s attorney. The Court of Appeals affirmed in an unpublished opinion.2 We granted leave to appeal.
I
At the outset of the in-court sentencing proceeding, the circuit judge addressed defense counsel, saying:
"Mr. Dodge, you have already discussed this matter with the court in chambers. Do you wish to respond any further to the presentence investigation report?”
It is thus apparent that the judge and defense counsel discussed the presentence report and, presumably, the sentence, in Pulley’s absence. The balance of the sentencing record shows that the prosecutor was also given the opportunity to respond to the presentence report, and that Pulley was accorded his opportunity for allocution.
Pulley asserts that his opportunity for allocution and to refute the contents of the presentence report was made ineffective by his absence from the presentence conference, and that the presentence conference is a critical stage of a criminal prosecution at which a defendant has a constitutional right to be present. The prosecutor maintains that Pulley had a full opportunity for allocu[528]*528tion and to respond to the presentence investigation report, and that his right to be present extends only to his trial, which ends with the rendition of the verdict.
II
While the power to set the range of punishment for a given offense is legislative,3 bringing that statutory range of discretion to bear upon an individual defendant in the form of a sentence has been confided to the judiciary.4 The exertion of such judicial process has traditionally required that the accused be given the opportunity to personally participate.5
" 'A leading principle that pervades the entire law of criminal procedure is that, after indictment found, nothing shall be done in the absence of the prisoner.’ ” People v Medcoff, 344 Mich 108, 114; 73 NW2d 537 (1955), quoting Lewis v United States, 146 US 370, 372; 13 S Ct 136; 36 L Ed 1011 (1892).
In 1882, this Court invalidated a statute prescribing the procedure applicable to persons convicted and imprisoned as disorderly by a justice of the peace.6 The statute required the circuit court, at the beginning of each term, to inquire into the circumstances of each case, to hear any proofs offered, and to order a prisoner released, bound out as an apprentice or servant or committed to jail at hard labor. The Court said:
[529]*529"Now surely it requires no argument at the present day, nor citation of authorities, to show that none of these things can be done by the circuit court unless the person convicted is personally present. It would be so clearly contrary to our fundamental law to permit evidence to be introduced and considered against a person convicted or accused; or to permit the sentence imposed to be increased, as this statute provides, in the absence of the person convicted, that we cannot think the Legislature contemplated such a thing. If attempted it would be clearly unconstitutional and of no force or effect.” In the Matter of Fowler, 49 Mich 234, 238; 13 NW 530 (1882).
An analysis of the character of the sentencing proceeding reveals its kinship to the process of determining guilt or innocence at trial, and the consequent need for defendant’s presence and participation. Michigan sentencing policy currently requires that
"the sentence should be tailored to the particular circumstances of the case and the offender in an effort to balance both society’s need for protection and its interest in maximizing the offender’s rehabilitative potential.” People v McFarlin, 389 Mich 557, 574; 208 NW2d 504 (1973).
To so tailor the sentence, the judge must gather complete and detailed information about the offender.7 The judge must assess the reliability of the information received,8 assure that it is reasonably up-to-date,9 determine its competency as a [530]*530sentencing consideration,10 and resolve challenges to its accuracy.11
The lack of knowledge of what went on in conference denigrates the defendant’s personal right of allocution. GCR 1963, 785.8(2). What Pulley has argued may often be true:
"To provide the defendant with a chance to speak after extensive chamber discussions is worthless. If defendant has been excluded from this crucial sentencing discussion, he not only must challenge any preconceived determination, but must do so in the dark.”
Closely related to assuring the actual fairness and reliability of the proceeding is assuring the appearance of fairness and reliability so essential to maintaining confidence in courts as instruments of justice.12 Proceedings secret to the defendant, whether or not fair in fact, are antithetic to the defendant’s perception that he is being treated fairly. As expressed in an English case in which a witness had been questioned by the court in the absence of the defendant:
"That is a matter which cannot possibly be justified. I am not suggesting for one moment that the justices had any sinister or improper motive in acting as they did. It may be that they sent for this officer in the interests of the accused; it may be that the information which the officer gave was in the interests of the accused. That [531]*531does not matter. Time and again this court has said that justice must not only be done but must manifestly be seen to be done.” Rex v Bodmin Justices ex parte McEwen, [1947] KB 321, 325; [1947] 1 All Eng Rep 109 (emphasis supplied).
One has only to imagine a defendant sitting in the courtroom while his attorney, probably appointed by the state, and the judge are discussing his fate behind closed doors to see how easily the defendant’s predictable dissatisfaction with the fairness of his sentence will become dissatisfaction with the fairness of the system.
Of comparable importance to the defendant’s perception of fair treatment is society’s perception that the process by which it deprives certain of its members of their liberty is fair, just and reliable:
"Against the practical ease of administration associated with informality must be weighed the ceremonial value of solemn formality and procedural regularity as indices of society’s commitment to the principle that liberty and life ought not to be taken away cheaply or carelessly. Although it may be burdensome to society and, in rare cases, even disadvantageous to the defendant to allow him and his counsel to participate actively in the sentencing proceeding, recognition of their right to do so, whatever other justifications it may have, signifies a way of dealing with individuals which is fundamental to a free society.”13
Ill
A majority of the Court, however, is of the opinion that this defendant was not prejudiced by his absence from the sentence conference. There has been no showing, on this record, that what transpired at the conference was objectionable in [532]*532any fashion. Accordingly, while the foregoing statements in this opinion reveal some of our Concerns regarding the issue of a defendant’s right to be present at such a conference, we decline at this time to require, as a matter of policy, that an accused be present upon request at this conference.
In light of our concerns, however, we are considering the adoption of a rule governing this area. A proposed rule is set forth in the appendix to this opinion. The proposal will be published for comment prior to our further consideration of it.
We have also examined the defendant’s claims that his absence from the sentence conference violated his constitutional rights. We find those contentions to have no merit.
The motion for leave to file a supplemental brief is denied.
The decision of the Court of Appeals is affirmed.
Kavanagh, Fitzgerald, and Blair Moody, Jr., JJ., concurred.