ENGEL, Circuit Judge.
James G. Crick entered counseled pleas of guilty in the Christian Circuit Court, Kentucky, to charges of murder, armed robbery, and taking a vehicle without the consent of the owner. After exhausting his state remedies, he sought freedom through federal habeas corpus proceedings in the United States District Court.
The events which led to the criminal proceedings occurred on November 29, 1973, seventeen days before Crick’s eighteenth birthday. Under Kentucky law he was entitled as a minor to the protection of the state’s juvenile statutes. Ky.Rev.Stat. § 208.010,
et seq.
At the time of the events here, sections 208.020 and 208.170 required that before a minor could be charged and tried in circuit court as an adult, the Juve
nile Division of the District Court must have transferred jurisdiction over the case to the Circuit Court. Such transfer might be made only after a hearing and a determination that “the best interests of the child and of the public require that the child be tried and disposed of under the regular law governing crimes.. . . ” Ky.Rev.Stat. § 208.170.
The failure of his transfer order to make the foregoing specific finding concerning “best interests,” and to state the reasons for the findings, Crick claims, violated his right to due process as defined in
Kent v. United States,
383 U.S. 541, 86 S.Ct. 1045, 16 L.Ed.2d 84 (1966). The district court agreed and ordered issuance of the writ, finding also that Crick’s state procedural default in failing to interpose an earlier objection to the order did not bar federal habeas corpus review. In this respect, the district judge held that the standard applicable to such defaults was the “deliberate by-pass” rule of
Fay v. Noia,
372 U.S. 391, 83 S.Ct. 822, 9 L.Ed.2d 837 (1963), rather than the “cause” and “prejudice” rule of
Wainwright v. Sykes,
433 U.S. 72, 97 S.Ct. 2497, 53 L.Ed.2d 594 (1977):
In the case before us, the respondent argues that the “cause” and “prejudice” showing of
Wainwright
should be required. However, the Court believes that the proper standard by which to test the state procedural default in this case is that of “deliberate by pass”, announced in
Fay v. Noia,
372 U.S. 391, 83 S.Ct. 822, 9 L.Ed.2d 837 (1963). The Court’s reading of both cases convinces us that
Fay
was only partially superseded by
Wainwright.
Where the procedural default involves a decision of counsel, such as failure to object, the threshold showing of “cause” and “prejudice” is required by
Wainwright.
That decision was based heavily on a desire to prevent “sandbagging” by counsel. However, where the procedural default involves a decision of the defendant, such as failure to appeal, the proper question must be whether there was a “deliberate by pass” under
Fay.
We are supported in this conclusion by the concurring opinion of Justice Burger in
Wainwright v. Sykes, supra,
433 U.S. at 91, 97 S.Ct. 2509.
We reverse and remand. In so doing we recognize that the juvenile court transfer order was technically defective, and hence violative of the due process required by
Kent.
We hold, for the purposes of this appeal at least, that the trial judge was correct in his holding that the deliberate by-pass rule of
Fay v. Noia, supra,
applies to consideration of the procedural default here. We depart, however, from the analysis of the district court as to the nature and timing of that procedural default. We hold that the harmless error rule of
Chapman v. California,
386 U.S. 18, 87 S.Ct. 824, 17 L.Ed.2d 705 (1967), can be applied in the context of the constitutional error involved in this case. We recognize the power of appellate courts to make such findings where appropriate, but exercise our discretion to remand to the district court for the purpose of making this determination.
I.
Kentucky does not seriously contest the petitioner’s claim, if it is properly reviewable in federal habeas corpus proceedings, that the failure of the transfer order to include the specific findings, and the reasons for the findings, required by Kentucky law was a due process violation within the meaning of
Kent.
Extensive litigation both in Kentucky courts and in federal courts has centered on the common error which occurred here.
In
Kent
v.
United States, supra,
the Supreme Court held that a minor is entitled as a matter of constitutional due process to compliance with the state’s statutory protections provided for minors as a condition
to their waiver to stand trial as an adult. In
Kent,
the Court determined that the applicable law of the District of Columbia granted the minor the rights to counsel, a hearing, a full investigation, and statement of reasons for the transfer. The due process violation in
Kent
was found to be the failure of the juvenile court to hold a hearing as well as make the requisite statement of reasons for the transfer. Nevertheless, since the petitioner had by then attained the age of majority, the Supreme Court did not direct that the writ issue outright. Instead it remanded the case to the district court to determine, after a hearing
de novo,
whether the waiver was appropriate under the particular facts of the case.
Kent, supra,
383 U.S. at 565, 86 S.Ct. at 1059.
We are bound at the outset to observe that here, unlike
Kent,
the petitioner appears to have been accorded a full hearing in the juvenile court, at which he was provided counsel. No challenge to the completeness, fairness, or procedural regularity of that hearing is made. The sole flaw, it appears, came after the hearing when the juvenile court judge failed to incorporate the specific finding of “best interests of the child and of the public,” and the reasons therefor, formally in the transfer order or elsewhere in the record. This distinction from the facts in
Kent
is important, not because it removes the constitutional flaw altogether, but because it demonstrates that much of the potential for injury present in
Kent
is not present here.
We conclude, therefore, that if the district court properly reached the issue, it also properly found that at least a technical violation of due process occurred when the juvenile judge failed to incorporate the necessary specific findings and reasons in the transfer order or record. The State of Kentucky, however, maintains that the petitioner’s procedural default precluded the Kentucky appellate courts and us from reaching the issue in the absence of an affirmative showing by Crick that his failure earlier to raise the issue was excused by an adequate showing of “cause” and “prejudice” called for in
Wainwright.
II.
Much of the argument of the parties centers on the nature and timing of the procedural default, issues the parties urge must be resolved before determining whether
Wainwright
or
Fay
applies. We believe the disagreement arises from a confusion in concepts between the failure to exhaust state remedies as a statutory requirement for federal habeas corpus review under 28 U.S.C. § 2254(b) (1976), and the petitioner’s original failure to observe state laws requiring him to make a timely objection, which may provide an adequate and independent state ground for the conviction.
Crick asserts that his failure to raise the
Kent
issue in his first, uncounseled RCr 11.42 motion is the relevant default for analysis here. Rule 11.42 provides for motions to vacate, set aside, or correct sentences subject to collateral attack on due process grounds.
Rule 11.42 requires, how
ever, that all grounds for holding the sentence invalid of which the movant has knowledge must be included in the first such motion.
RCr 11.42(3). The State of Kentucky, on the other hand, argues that the default first occurred upon Crick’s counsel’s failure to object to the transfer order at the time of the transfer hearing in the juvenile court. We disagree with both parties’ analyses.
We believe that, subject to the state’s interpretation of the scope of its own provisions for collateral relief generally, a proper analysis of whether a procedural default is to be evaluated under
Wainwright
or
Fay
must begin with an inquiry into the circumstances under which the error first occurred. There should follow an analysis of the remedies then available to competent counsel under Kentucky law, a determination whether those remedies were pursued in timely fashion so that the error could be called to the attention of the appropriate Kentucky court at the earliest practicable opportunity and finally a decision whether the failure to pursue the correction of the error barred, under Kentucky law, the subsequent consideration of the issue, thus potentially providing an adequate and independent state ground for Crick’s conviction. Only then can we decide which standard applies in determining the reach of federal habeas corpus review.
If an error occurred during the juvenile court hearing, as the State argues, a contemporaneous objection by counsel would have cured it. The error here occurred after the hearing, however, when the juvenile judge failed to incorporate specific findings of “best interest,” and a statement of the reasons for the findings, in the order of transfer or the record. Since we know of no Kentucky procedure whereby Crick’s counsel could have interposed an objection to the order in the juvenile court at this time, no procedural default could have occurred by his failure to do so.
Competent counsel could most likely have discovered the error shortly after the order was issued, when he received a copy or when he examined the proceedings for regularity before counseling his client whether to plead guilty or stand trial in circuit court. We do not know here whether counsel was aware of
Kent
at the time, but assume that, in the absence of exceptional circumstances, competent defense counsel should have been.
It seems almost certain that if Crick’s counsel was competent and if he conceived that timely correction of the error might result in a remand and reassertion of jurisdiction by the juvenile court, he would promptly have acted in a number of ways to achieve that result. This might
have been accomplished informally by bringing the flaw to the attention of the prosecutor and the circuit judge, who presumably would have an equal interest in not running afoul of federal constitutional law. Kentucky law suggests that upon transfer to the circuit court, Crick’s attorney could also have filed a motion to remand.
If the indictment had by then been returned, counsel could have filed a motion to recall the indictment and remand to the juvenile court for consideration of the “best interests of the child and of the public.” Crick’s attorney might also have availed himself of the procedures for appeal under Ky.Rev.Stat. § 208.380. In this respect, the Court of Appeals of Kentucky has recently held that the failure to appeal a juvenile transfer order to the circuit court precluded further review of the
Kent
issue in the Kentucky courts.
See Newsome v. Commonwealth,
(Ky.App.1980) (No. CA-1900-MR),
aff’d,
609 S.W.2d 370 (Ky.1980) (No. 79-SG-422-DG). While
Newsome
came six years after Crick’s transfer order, Ky.Rev. Stat. § 208.380 has been worded substantially the same way since at least 1972.
Competent counsel would have pursued correction in the circuit court, however, only if doing so offered any reasonable chance of getting a remand and reassertion of jurisdiction by the juvenile court, thus avoiding his client’s charge, conviction, ánd sentence on an adult crime. He would not necessarily have done so if convinced that any objection to the transfer order would only result in the timely correction of the transfer order and an even more unassailable plea, conviction, and sentence.
Regardless of whether the above procedures were employed, competent counsel anxious to obtain
Kent’s
benefits and otherwise unsuccessful would at least have sought to appeal the conviction.
But Crick’s counsel did not do so.
The procedural default that we must evaluate here is not Crick’s failure to raise the
Kent
issue in his first RCr 11.42 motion, as he contends. Kentucky allows an RCr 11.42 motion to reach the
Kent
issue, at least where an appeal from the conviction has not been taken, only in special circumstances.
Smith v. Commonwealth,
412 S.W.2d 256 (Ky.1967).
See also Holt v. Commonwealth,
525 S.W.2d 660 (Ky.1975). In
Smith,
the defendant’s counsel could not have known of the nature of the constitutional violation before the time for a direct appeal expired, since
Kent v. United States, supra,
was not decided until sometime thereafter. These special circumstances, wherein Kentucky allows a collateral attack on the conviction in spite of a failure to appeal, are not present in this case.
We conclude, therefore, that the default under Kentucky law which would ordinarily bar Kentucky courts from further review of the issues not timely raised, and which therefore should be evaluated under either
Wainwright
or
Fay,
was the failure to appeal either the transfer of jurisdiction to the circuit court, or the judgment of conviction entered upon Crick’s guilty plea. We so hold because this default most clearly focuses upon the primary cause of the loss of the right under state law.
To analyze the issue in terms of the exhaustion of state collateral remedies, and thus to tie it to the same rule which applies in determining whether to refrain from reaching the issue in section 2254 proceedings is simply not satisfactory, either to federal or state courts. State court employment of collateral remedies to reach federal constitutional issues is a practice to be encouraged. It hastens the time of their resolution and relieves the federal courts from the need to intervene. To hold that the state’s collateral remedies open the door to consideration in federal habeas corpus proceedings of issues which the state holds as foreclosed on direct review discourages the states from expanding their use.
III.
Exactly what remains of the deliberate by-pass rule of
Fay v. Noia, supra,
after
Wainwright v. Sykes, supra,
appears deliberately to have been left uncertain in
Wainwright,
as indeed is any precise definition of what constitutes “cause” and “prejudice.” While
Wainwright
attacked the overly broad language of
Fay, Wainwright v. Sykes,
433 U.S. at 87-88, 97 S.Ct. at 2506-07, its own language also speaks broadly concerning the underlying values of the two rules. Indeed, Justice Rehnquist’s rationale for application of the “cause” and “prejudice” rule appears to apply as well to failures to appeal altogether as to other types of defaults.
Chief Justice Burger’s concurring opinion in
Wainwright,
however, suggests a distinction between
Fay
and
Wainwright
by noting that while the failure to interpose a contemporary objection in the course of the trial is the result of a decision normally left to the discretion of the attorney as manager of his client’s case on trial, a decision on whether to appeal from the conviction is one made only upon consultation with, and with the consent of the defendant. 433 U.S. at 91, 92-94, 97 S.Ct. at 2508, 2509-10 (Burger, Ch. J., concurring). Because this is at least a rational distinction, and because
Wainwright
could have but did not explicitly overrule
Fay v. Noia, supra,
we conclude that the deliberate by-pass rule is still alive and well, or at least remains applicable to its own facts. Therefore, since we have held that the procedural bar here is the failure to appeal, we are led to agree with the district judge that normally it would be incumbent upon the state to demonstrate that such failure to appeal was the result of a “deliberate by-pass” of the right, or, in Fay’s words, the “ ‘intentional relinquishment or abandonment of a known right or
privilege.’”
372 U.S. at 439, 83 S.Ct. at 849 (quoting
Johnson v. Zerbst,
304 U.S. 458, 464, 58 S.Ct. 1019, 1023, 82 L.Ed. 1461 (1937)).
IV.
There yet remains, however, one consideration which inevitably arises from the foregoing analysis. If no competent attorney would conclude that efforts to correct the technical flaw in the transfer order could possibly have resulted in the reassertion of jurisdiction by the juvenile court, is not the constitutional error harmless in fact? If so, can a violation of due process under
Kent
ever be held harmless beyond a reasonable doubt under
Chapman v. California,
386 U.S. 18, 87 S.Ct. 824, 17 L.Ed.2d 705 (1967), in a federal habeas corpus proceeding? We conclude that it surely may. Such errors have historically been subject to the rule of harmless error, and they are within the intent of
Chapman.
That the Supreme Court in
Kent
believed such flaws were subject to the rule of harmless error is evident since it did not compel automatic issuance of the writ.
Kent
itself presented even a more grievous deprivation of due process for it involved not only a failure to make specific findings in accordance with District of Columbia law but also a failure to accord a hearing altogether. Crick, however, received a full evidentiary hearing. Yet in
Kent,
Justice Fortas held that the remedy upon finding the due process deprivation was not an immediate release under the writ, but a remand to the district court for a
de novo
hearing to determine whether the waiver of jurisdiction from the juvenile court to the district court was “appropriate.”
Kent,
therefore, contemplated that the conviction should be vacated only if the waiver were deemed inappropriate. It thus appears to have been the view of the Supreme Court that the right to due process, where its denial was the lack of a hearing and determination of appropriateness of the transfer order, did not necessarily require a grant of freedom outright, but a grant, tardily, of a hearing which had been denied. Under
Kent,
therefore, the prisoner should be discharged only if it should be determined that the failure to accord the right found violated resulted in actual prejudice.
It is not only
Kent’s
own self-imposed limitations which persuade us that the
Chapman
rule of harmless error may be applicable, but other factors in the case as well. Foremost is the fact that Crick had court appointed counsel representing him both in the juvenile court, and upon transfer to the Christian Circuit Court, in the entry of his plea of guilty. It does not appear, therefore, that Crick was prejudiced by an inability to marshall the facts which should have been presented, or in arguing the merits of retention of jurisdiction, to the judge in the transfer hearing. Equally important is the fact that the error, though a constitutional violation, is not one which places into question the reliability of the finding of guilt which underlies the conviction. In this respect, we have a double guarantee of the reliability of Crick’s guilt. First, while only a finding of “reasonable cause” was usually sufficient to most determinations in transfer proceedings at the time, Ky.Rev.Stat. § 208.170(1), here the juvenile judge specifically made his determination of Crick’s involvement “beyond a reasonable doubt,” and did so only after a full evidentiary hearing at which Crick was present and represented by counsel. Second, we have the fact of Crick’s own counseled plea of guilty, which was upheld upon later collateral attack on the voluntariness and intelligence of it.
If, therefore, the harmless error rule of
Chapman
is limit
ed, and inapplicable to errors which affect the reliability of the truth finding process, that limitation clearly does not apply here.
We conclude, therefore, that the harmless error rule may in appropriate cases be applied where the constitutional error is one within the purview of
Kent v. United States, supra.
We next proceed to an examination of the facts of this case in the light of the harmless error rule of
Chapman.
V.
The record before us most strongly suggests that the transferring judge would not have revoked the transfer order and reasserted jurisdiction over Crick had he been made aware of the omission in the transfer order. Most likely, he merely would have incorporated the necessary findings, and reasons therefor, into the order or record. For this reason, we doubt the error could be considered as anything other than harmless beyond a reasonable doubt. The facts supporting these conclusions are:
1. The error here appears to have been one of omission of language in the order rather than any failure of the juvenile judge to understand the provisions of the statute. It goes against logic to believe that the juvenile judge did not understand that he had the power to retain jurisdiction.
2. James Crick, at the time he committed the murder, was within seventeen days of attaining adult status under the statute. Thus any treatment, incarceration, and rehabilitation would occur when he had under Kentucky law come of age.
3. The nature of the crime itself was grave, both in its consequences and in the penalty which ordinarily attached to it.
4. The facts of the crime show great brutality. The killing of John Thomas Master was the culmination of a day-long beer drinking spree on the part of Crick and his girlfriend’s brother, Kenneth Ray Knight. Crick and Knight left a bar in Madisonville, Kentucky, the afternoon of November 29, 1973, and were headed out of town when they ran out of gas. Failing to get their car started, the two decided to hitchhike back to the parkway to obtain another car. They were picked up by the decedent, Master, about 4:30 or 5:00 p. m. Once in the car, Kenny Knight held a nail file to Master’s throat and ordered him to stop the car. According to Crick, Master was about 5'8" tall, weighed about 145 pounds, had graying hair, and was partially bald. The idea to rob Master came from Knight. After Master stopped the car, Knight got the keys from him. Knight also took the victim’s wallet and tossed it to Crick, who removed the money and threw the wallet away. Master, by then out of the car, attempted to escape by leaping over the guard rail. He tripped and fell, however, rolling to the bottom of the hill. Crick pursued him. From above, according to Crick, Knight was yelling “Kill him, Kill him, Kill him, Kill him.” Crick said he was unable to do so, but admitted that he hit Master two or three times in the cheek and stomach. This apparently subdued Master, and Knight, before coming down the hill himself, suggested they take Master over a nearby fence and drown him in the stream which lay beyond. Knight then ordered the man to cross the fence and said he would shoot him if he did not. What followed is described in Crick’s own words in his statement to the police:
Q. How did the man get in the water?
[Crick:] By himself, I mean he was kinda limping and all but he made it to the water and he got down on his knees, I mean when he got into the water he fell and then Kenny put his foot on the back
of his neck and was holding him down and a few minutes later he let him up.
Q. Did he hold his head under the water?
[Crick:] Yes, so anyway he, the man wasn’t dead when he brought him up so we drug him out of the water and put him on the bank and I hit him one more time and we turned around and left.
Q. After Kenny let him up from the water he was found up from the fence there. Did you drag him up on dry ground?
[Crick:] Yes, Sir.
Q. Tell how you drug him.
[Crick:] Both of us got him by one arm, I mean by both arms, and we drug him up the stream maybe 10 15 feet from the stream and laid him up on top of the bank.
Q. Was he bleeding at this time?
[Crick:] Yes, he was bleeding.
Q. Profusely, Quite a bit?
[Crick:] No, He was not.
Q. He was alive when you left?
[Crick:] Yes, he was, he was completely alive.
Q. Did he say anything?
[Crick:] No he did not, but he was alive, he was still breathing.
Master died of a brain concussion. Crick and Knight were eventually apprehended driving Master’s car in Danville, Illinois, when they were arrested for speeding and drunk driving. While placing much of the blame on Knight and repeatedly saying the crime would not have occurred had he not been drinking, Crick has never since denied his own participation.
5. Extensive psychological reports prepared at the request of the juvenile court judge indicate that while slight of stature, Crick “gives the impression of being older” and “would give one the impression that he is far older than his seventeen years despite his slight build.”
6. Crick’s background history shows that he had attained a high degree of emancipation at the time of the crime. Prior to the crime, but in the same year, he had left his adopted home and gone to Chicago to live with an aunt and to seek employment. The record suggests he had an active adult sex life, and was enamored of a married but estranged woman many years his senior whom he hoped, ultimately, to marry.
7. The psychological reports, based upon interviews with Crick, concluded that while he was not psychotic, he was nonetheless potentially dangerous. He entertained considerable hostility toward his adoptive mother and an outright hatred for his natural mother, whom he considered to have abandoned him when he was young. Crick stated to one psychologist that he would kill his natural mother if he found her.
The juvenile court judge appears to have had knowledge of all the foregoing information available to him. There is, therefore, no reason, other than the failure to include specific findings in the transfer order, to believe that he did not consider these facts in ordering the transfer. At least based upon the record before us, it would be our own conclusion that the chances that the juvenile court judge would have changed his mind upon being apprised of the omission in his transfer order were zero.
VI.
We recognize that employment of the
Chapman
harmless error rule has never been confined to any particular court. We have no doubt that we possess the judicial power to exercise it at the appellate level and even
sua sponte
where the facts properly before us justify it.
We recognize, also,
that it is a power which is to be exercised with restraint. Harmless error cannot and ought not be employed as a result-oriented vehicle for avoiding the often unpleasant judicial role of enforcing constitutional rights in difficult and unappealing circumstances. We believe, also, that an appellate court has the discretion to refer the question to the trial court for determination in the first instance. That procedure appeals to our sense of fairness here.
The harmless error issue here, as we analyze it, is whether it can be found beyond a reasonable doubt that the juvenile judge in Kentucky, in 1973-74, having omitted the statutory findings of “best interest” in the transfer order would not, on being apprised of the omission, have changed his decision and reasserted juvenile court jurisdiction over the defendant under the circumstances which existed in this case.
While we recognize our power to make this decision ourselves in an appropriate case, we conclude that fairness is better served by a remand to the district judge for his own evaluation in the light of the observations in this opinion. The issue has. not previously been raised, to our knowledge, nor have the law and facts been analyzed in the manner we have undertaken here. Fairness, then, would seem to require that counsel for both the state and the petitioner be given an opportunity to be heard on this issue. In addition, there is a great advantage in having the perspective of a district judge from the state in which the casé arose, who would be more sensitive to both the nuances and realities of Kentucky law and practice in making this determination. We see this procedure as an additional protection against the unfair application of the harmless error rule.
Accordingly, we vacate the judgment of the district court and remand for further proceedings. We instruct the district judge first to consider the applicability of the harmless error rule as defined in
Chapman v. California,
386 U.S. 18, 87 S.Ct. 824, 17 L.Ed.2d 705 (1967). He is free to hear arguments from counsel with respect to its appropriateness under the facts here. If he deems the record inadequate, he may in his discretion (but we do not so require) call for additional state record or hold an evidentiary hearing. If upon consideration of the question, he finds the defective transfer order to have been harmless beyond a reasonable doubt, he may then dismiss the petition, unless, of course, there then remain other unresolved issues not earlier addressed.
Second, if the district judge concludes that he may not fairly apply the harmless error rule, he shall then proceed to consider the question of whether Crick’s transfer was nevertheless appropriate under Kentucky law. In such case, he shall have the authority to hold a
de novo
evidentiary hearing to the extent the state record is deemed inadequate, as described in
Kent
and directed by our court in
White v. Sowders,
644 F.2d 1177 (6th Cir. 1980) (No. 79-3242). If he finds that Crick’s transfer was appropriate, the petition may be dismissed unless unresolved issues remain. If he should decide that Crick would not properly have been transferred to the circuit court and thus subject to indictment and conviction as an adult, then the writ may again issue.
Reversed and Remanded.