OPINION
THOMAS M. TWARDOWSKI, Bankruptcy Judge:
The present proceedings concern the dis-chargeability of a certain debt founded on a loan allegedly made in reliance upon a false financial statement.
In December, 1976, William and Mary Torneo, the bankrupts, applied for and obtained a loan from the plaintiff, HCC Consumer Discount Company (“HCC”), in the gross amount of $3,024, to be repaid in 36 monthly installments of $84 each.
At the same time, the bankrupts gave HCC a security interest in their household goods (primarily furniture) which were valued by Mr. Torneo at $5,000. HCC duly perfected its security interest by filing a financing statement in the appropriate place on January 14, 1977.
The bankrupts made only one payment on the loan before filing voluntary petitions in bankruptcy on April 15, 1977. In the bankrupts’ Schedule B-2 (personal property), the value of the same household items which are the subject of HCC’s security interest was listed as $600. N.T. at 4. On August 31,1977, HCC filed a complaint objecting to the discharge of the debt owed it by the bankrupts. The complaint alleges that in filling out the schedule of property in connection with the loan application, the bankrupt falsely stated the value of his household goods and that therefore the debt is nondischargeable by virtue of § 17a(2) of the Bankruptcy Act (11 U.S.C. § 35(a)(2), which provides, in pertinent part:
a. A discharge in bankruptcy shall release a bankrupt from all of his provable debts, . except such as . (2) are liabilities . for obtaining money or property on credit or obtaining an extension or renewal of credit in reliance upon a materially false statement in writing respecting his financial condition made or published or caused to be made or published in any manner whatsoever with intent to deceive
In order to succeed on a § 17a(2) objection, the plaintiff must prove (1) that the bankrupt made the representations; (2) that the representations, when made, were materially false; (3) that he made them with the intention and purpose of deceiving the creditor; (4) that the creditor relied on such representations; and (5) that the creditor sustained the damage alleged as the proximate result of the representations having been made.
Cf. In re McMillan,
579 F.2d 289, 292 n.5 (3d Cir. 1978);
In re Houtman,
568 F.2d 651, 655 (9th Cir. 1978);
In re Taylor,
515 F.2d 1370, 1373 (9th Cir. 1975);
Sweet v. Ritter Finance,
263 F.Supp. 540, 543 (W.D.Va.1967).
Of those elements listed above, not all are in dispute. The bankrupts admit that they made the representations and that the plaintiff relied on them.
This standard has been used regularly by the courts which have decided cases on complaints to obtain a determination of the dischargeability of a debt, with one exception: courts seem uniformly to interpret the “materially false” language in § 17a(2) to mean more than “materially untrue” or “materially inaccurate” or “materially incorrect.” Instead, courts have read into the meaning of “materially false” in § 17a(2), a requirement that the bankrupt actually knew of the falsity of the representations when he made them, see, e.
g., In re McMillan, supra
at 292, or that “the materially inaccurate financial statement . be . intentionally false, or made ‘carelessly and with reckless indifference to the actual facts.’ ”
In re Weinroth,
439 F.2d 787, 788 (3d Cir. 1971)
[citing In re Barbato,
398 F.2d 572, 573 (3d Cir. 1968)].
The apparent reason for this particular interpretation of the falsity element of § 17a(2) is that the courts which have dealt with this type of § 17a(2) case have wanted to make clear that a debt will be held nondischargeable under § 17a(2) only if the falsity involved is not merely an untrue statement, but a lie, or a statement so carelessly made as to be blameworthy. This would be an adequate interpretation of the falsity element of § 17a(2) if the section did not also require a finding of “intent to deceive” to bar discharge of the debt. Therefore, any additional meaning given to the word “false” in § 17a(2) other than “untrue,” “incorrect,” or “inaccurate,” is nothing but surplusage, since the “intent to deceive” requirement is the element which takes into consideration whether the debtor made the untrue statement, knowing it to be false and with the purpose of deceiving the creditor.
We conclude that when § 17a(2) sets forth the “materially false” requirement, the statutory language should be taken to mean a “substantial or important untruth.” See
Black’s Law Dictionary
540, 880, 1280 (5th ed. 1979). By operation of the remaining language of § 17a(2), the bankrupt is culpable for the substantial untruth only if it was made with intent to deceive the creditor.
One possible reason for the meaning heretofore given the word “false” in the § 17a(2) context by some courts, may be the language of § 14c(3) of the Bankruptcy Act. Section 14c(3) precludes the discharge of a bankrupt who has
while engaged in business as a sole proprietor, partnership, or as an executive of a corporation, obtained for such business money or property on credit by making or publishing ... a materially false statement in writing respecting his financial condition .... [Emphasis added]
In interpreting the meaning of “materially false” in cases involving § 14c(3) objections to discharge, courts have concluded that “false,” within the meaning of § 14c(3), means knowingly or intentionally false or made carelessly and with reckless indifference to the actual facts.
In re Weinroth,
439 F.2d 787 (3d Cir. 1971);
In re Butler,
407 F.2d 1059,1061 (3d Cir. 1969),
aff’d,
425 F.2d 47 (3d Cir. 1970);
In re Barbato,
398 F.2d 572, 574 (3d Cir. 1968),
aff’d,
421 F.2d 1324 (3d Cir. 1970);
In re Perlman,
407 F.2d 861 (3d Cir. 1961).
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OPINION
THOMAS M. TWARDOWSKI, Bankruptcy Judge:
The present proceedings concern the dis-chargeability of a certain debt founded on a loan allegedly made in reliance upon a false financial statement.
In December, 1976, William and Mary Torneo, the bankrupts, applied for and obtained a loan from the plaintiff, HCC Consumer Discount Company (“HCC”), in the gross amount of $3,024, to be repaid in 36 monthly installments of $84 each.
At the same time, the bankrupts gave HCC a security interest in their household goods (primarily furniture) which were valued by Mr. Torneo at $5,000. HCC duly perfected its security interest by filing a financing statement in the appropriate place on January 14, 1977.
The bankrupts made only one payment on the loan before filing voluntary petitions in bankruptcy on April 15, 1977. In the bankrupts’ Schedule B-2 (personal property), the value of the same household items which are the subject of HCC’s security interest was listed as $600. N.T. at 4. On August 31,1977, HCC filed a complaint objecting to the discharge of the debt owed it by the bankrupts. The complaint alleges that in filling out the schedule of property in connection with the loan application, the bankrupt falsely stated the value of his household goods and that therefore the debt is nondischargeable by virtue of § 17a(2) of the Bankruptcy Act (11 U.S.C. § 35(a)(2), which provides, in pertinent part:
a. A discharge in bankruptcy shall release a bankrupt from all of his provable debts, . except such as . (2) are liabilities . for obtaining money or property on credit or obtaining an extension or renewal of credit in reliance upon a materially false statement in writing respecting his financial condition made or published or caused to be made or published in any manner whatsoever with intent to deceive
In order to succeed on a § 17a(2) objection, the plaintiff must prove (1) that the bankrupt made the representations; (2) that the representations, when made, were materially false; (3) that he made them with the intention and purpose of deceiving the creditor; (4) that the creditor relied on such representations; and (5) that the creditor sustained the damage alleged as the proximate result of the representations having been made.
Cf. In re McMillan,
579 F.2d 289, 292 n.5 (3d Cir. 1978);
In re Houtman,
568 F.2d 651, 655 (9th Cir. 1978);
In re Taylor,
515 F.2d 1370, 1373 (9th Cir. 1975);
Sweet v. Ritter Finance,
263 F.Supp. 540, 543 (W.D.Va.1967).
Of those elements listed above, not all are in dispute. The bankrupts admit that they made the representations and that the plaintiff relied on them.
This standard has been used regularly by the courts which have decided cases on complaints to obtain a determination of the dischargeability of a debt, with one exception: courts seem uniformly to interpret the “materially false” language in § 17a(2) to mean more than “materially untrue” or “materially inaccurate” or “materially incorrect.” Instead, courts have read into the meaning of “materially false” in § 17a(2), a requirement that the bankrupt actually knew of the falsity of the representations when he made them, see, e.
g., In re McMillan, supra
at 292, or that “the materially inaccurate financial statement . be . intentionally false, or made ‘carelessly and with reckless indifference to the actual facts.’ ”
In re Weinroth,
439 F.2d 787, 788 (3d Cir. 1971)
[citing In re Barbato,
398 F.2d 572, 573 (3d Cir. 1968)].
The apparent reason for this particular interpretation of the falsity element of § 17a(2) is that the courts which have dealt with this type of § 17a(2) case have wanted to make clear that a debt will be held nondischargeable under § 17a(2) only if the falsity involved is not merely an untrue statement, but a lie, or a statement so carelessly made as to be blameworthy. This would be an adequate interpretation of the falsity element of § 17a(2) if the section did not also require a finding of “intent to deceive” to bar discharge of the debt. Therefore, any additional meaning given to the word “false” in § 17a(2) other than “untrue,” “incorrect,” or “inaccurate,” is nothing but surplusage, since the “intent to deceive” requirement is the element which takes into consideration whether the debtor made the untrue statement, knowing it to be false and with the purpose of deceiving the creditor.
We conclude that when § 17a(2) sets forth the “materially false” requirement, the statutory language should be taken to mean a “substantial or important untruth.” See
Black’s Law Dictionary
540, 880, 1280 (5th ed. 1979). By operation of the remaining language of § 17a(2), the bankrupt is culpable for the substantial untruth only if it was made with intent to deceive the creditor.
One possible reason for the meaning heretofore given the word “false” in the § 17a(2) context by some courts, may be the language of § 14c(3) of the Bankruptcy Act. Section 14c(3) precludes the discharge of a bankrupt who has
while engaged in business as a sole proprietor, partnership, or as an executive of a corporation, obtained for such business money or property on credit by making or publishing ... a materially false statement in writing respecting his financial condition .... [Emphasis added]
In interpreting the meaning of “materially false” in cases involving § 14c(3) objections to discharge, courts have concluded that “false,” within the meaning of § 14c(3), means knowingly or intentionally false or made carelessly and with reckless indifference to the actual facts.
In re Weinroth,
439 F.2d 787 (3d Cir. 1971);
In re Butler,
407 F.2d 1059,1061 (3d Cir. 1969),
aff’d,
425 F.2d 47 (3d Cir. 1970);
In re Barbato,
398 F.2d 572, 574 (3d Cir. 1968),
aff’d,
421 F.2d 1324 (3d Cir. 1970);
In re Perlman,
407 F.2d 861 (3d Cir. 1961).
This interpretation may have been given to the word “false” in § 14c(3) eases, be
cause § 14c(3) contains no requirement that the materially false statement have been made “with intent to deceive.” By using such an interpretation, debtors avoid having a discharge denied as the result of an “honest mistake.”
Because § 17a(2) also uses the “materially false” language, the § 14c(3) interpretation of the same phrase may have been automatically and unnecessarily carried over to an analysis of § 17a(2). The reason that “false” need not and should not be given, in § 17a(2) cases involving a determination of the dischargeability of a debt, the same meaning given to it in § 14c(3) objections to discharge, is that Congress specifically added, in § 17a(2), the “intent to deceive” element, which it omitted from § 14c(3), thereby making it both unnecessary and redundant to give “false” a meaning other than “untrue” in § 17a(2) cases.
■
The disputed issues in this case center around two questions: (1) Was the bankrupt’s statement at the time of the loan application that the value of the. furniture was $5,000, “materially false?”; and, (2) If the statement of value was materially false, was it made by the bankrupts with the requisite “intent to deceive?”
The question of dischargeability of debts in bankruptcy is a federal question,
In re Meyers,
1 BCD 1651, 1652 n.4 (E.D.Mich. 1975). The degree of proof which the plaintiff must offer in order to succeed is that degree of evidence which is “clear and convincing.”
In re Barlick,
1 BCD 412, 418 (D.R.I.1974);
In re Brown,
6 Collier Bankruptcy cases 679, 683 (E.D.Va.1975).
Therefore, to reiterate, the plaintiff-creditor must show, by clear and convincing evidence, the following: (1) That the bankrupt made the representations; (2) that at the time the representations were made they were materially false (/.
e.,
substantially untrue); (3) that the debtor made the representations with the intention and purpose of deceiving the creditor (or that they were made carelessly or with reckless indifference to the actual facts); (4) that the creditor relied on such representations; and (5) that the creditor sustained the damage alleged as the proximate result of the representations having been made.
The creditor must carry the burden of persuasion on all five of the above-listed elements. However, once the creditor has made a
prima facie
showing that the debtor made a materially false representation in writing and that the creditor relied upon such representation to its detriment, the burden of production,
viz.,
the burden of going forward with evidence to show that the debtor had no intent to deceive the creditors, shifts to the debtor.
See In re Matera,
592 F.2d 378 (7th Cir. 1979).
See
also In re Taylor,
514 F.2d 1370, 1373 (9th Cir. 1975).
What happens mechanically, then, is this: Once the creditor has made its
prima facie
case, a presumption arises that the debtor made the representations with “intent to deceive.” At that point, the burden of going forward with evidence to the contrary (not the burden of persuasion) shifts to the debtor.
The treatment to be accorded that presumption is governed by Rule 301 of the Federal Rules of Evidence, made applicable to bankruptcy proceedings and cases by Rule 1101 of the Federal Rules of Evidence.
The effect of the presumption in a § 17a(2) case causes the debtor to be charged with a duty to come forward with some evidence that he had no intention of deceiving the creditor. At this juncture, the credibility of any such evidence introduced by the debtor is not legally relevant: “the mere introduction of evidence rebutting the presumed fact causes the presumption to disappear from the case.” Hecht
and Pinzler, Rebutting Presumptions: Order Out of Chaos, 58
B.U.L.Rev.
527, 527-533 (1978) (this approach has been referred to as tlje Thayer “bursting bubble theory”),
id.
We now turn to the evidence presented in this case.
Ronald Besecker of HCC, who handled the bankrupts’ loan application, • testified that, although it was not HCC’s policy generally to obtain a security interest for its loans, HCC did so in this case “Because of the fact that the credit which was outstanding at that time [approximately $7,000 (N.T. at 10)] was almost all in Mr. Tomeo’s name alone and if I was going to extend any additional credit, I wanted to make sure that the loan was secured.”
N.T. at 6. Therefore, the purpose of asking Mr. Torneo to list his household goods was to see whether there would be sufficient security for the loan. N.T. at 7-8. Mr. Besecker further testified that his standard remarks to applicants like Mr. Torneo are: “Fill in your best estimate of what you think all of these items listed above would be valued at
at the present time
[emphasis added],” N.T. at 9. Although he was unable to state with absolute certainty whether he actually made such a statement to Mr. Torneo, Be-secker “doubted” that he would have failed to do so, N.T. at 10.
The bankrupt, on the other hand, did not recall any such specific instructions by Mr. Besecker about the valuation of the items of furniture, N.T. at 24, but that he valued them “Just through my — just more or less retracting [sic] what I paid for them years ago,”
id.
“. . .1 tried to remember what I paid for them ten, eleven years ago.”
Id.
at 25. Mr. Torneo was a persuasive witness.
We conclude that the misstatement of the value of the furniture on the schedule of property submitted to plaintiff was a substantial one, thereby satisfying the “materially false” requirement of § 17a(2). Furthermore, but for the assurance of security at least equal in amount to the loan amount, the plaintiff would not have made the loan to the bankrupts; hence, the creditor here reasonably relied upon the false financial statement. At the time of this loan application, the bankrupts had outstanding two balances in excess of $2,400 with Public Finance Consumer Discount Company, one account with Commercial Credit in excess of $4,300, in addition to Master Charge, BankAmericard and Sears account balances, N.T. at 6-7, with total unsecured indebtedness amounting to approximately $7,000. N.T. at 10. We find credible plaintiff’s testimony about HCC’s having needed and relied upon a statement from the bankrupts showing sufficient security for the loan.
Nonetheless, for a debt to be rendered nondischargeable, the debtor need have made the false representations with the intention and purpose of deceiving the creditor.
In re McMillan,
579 F.2d 289, 292 (3d Cir. 1978).
See also Shapiro v. Tweedie Footwear Corp.,
13 F.2d 876, 878 (3d Cir. 1942). The type of fraud required to bar discharge of the debt is actual fraud involving moral turpitude.
In re McMillan, supra, citing Wright v. Lubinko,
515 F.2d 260, 263 (9th Cir. 1975). W)hat is required, then, is that there must have been some degree of fraudulent intent on the part of the bankrupt. The bankrupt must have had some degree of awareness of the falsity, or poten
tial for falsity, of his representations. A debt will not be found nondischargeable when the debtor is not at fault.
We conclude that the plaintiff has established a
prima facie
case that the bankrupt made materially false representations on which it detrimentally relied, thereby giving rise to a presumption that the bankrupt acted with intent to deceive. However, we further conclude that the debtor has effectively rebutted that presumption by his explanation of his valuation of the household goods,
whether the goods at the time of the statement were actually worth $600, or even $1,500, as suggested by the bankrupt in the Notes of Testimony at 22.
The evidence shows that the bankrupt was not a sophisticated borrower, and, contrary to assertions by the plaintiff, there is nothing in the bankrupt’s employment history or experience which would require of him any appreciable level of financial acuity. What the evidence does show, especially in view of the bankrupt’s credibility as a witness, is that the bankrupt made an “honest mistake.”
Cf. In re Barbato,
421 F.2d 1324, 1327 (3d Cir. 1970) (§ 14c(3)).
Therefore, taking into consideration all of the circumstances of this case, we find that the statement made by the bankrupt to the plaintiff was not made with the requisite intent to deceive. The debt, therefore, shall be discharged.